Stability is one of the most important factors for people, especially recent grads when looking for a job.
Job security provides peace of mind. When it comes to job security, knowing that you won’t lose your job anytime soon is priceless, and for some, that peace of mind is more important than money.
When people apply for a job, they get interviewed, then the recruiters inform them about the salary. People don’t even question it. And then they might stay there for years because it’s a stable job. But the question is, are people making a big mistake by just settling?
For career advisor Sergio Patterson, if a prospective employee doesn’t at least negotiate their expected salary, then they’re leaving money on the table. Sergio emphasizes that if you’re the final candidate they picked and offered the job to, then you have the leverage to negotiate their offer.
Sergio also gives about the importance of employees knowing the market and their market value as well as being prepared to switch companies when necessary. If they’re feeling stagnant in their current field, what should they do?
Join us and hear Sergio’s advice, tips, and tricks to fully maximize your earning potential. With hosts, wealth manager Lee Michael Murphy and attorney Matthew McElroy tune in to this week’s episode of The Free Retiree Show.
What You’ll Learn:
- How to negotiate your salary
- How to prepare yourself to jump between companies
- Advice if you feel stagnant in your career
[00:00:00] Lee Michael Murphy: Welcome in to the free retiree show your go-to podcast for your finances, your career avoiding the big mistakes and where we learn from people that have done amazing things. The boys are back Serge, the career mentor, attorney Matt McElroy
We are all back together. Guys. How you guys doing?
[00:00:21] Sergio Patterson: Doing good man.
[00:00:23] Lee Michael Murphy: Doing fantastic surviving for today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about how to maximize your earning potential. So important. So many of us, when we get a job, we interview, they give us our salary. We don’t question it. And then we might stay there for years, maybe even decades for a lot of us.
And are we making a big mistake by just settling? For the earnings, the wages, the salary that they have agreed to pay us for the long haul, doing some basic negotiation, right? When you get that job, say [00:01:00] a $5,000 increase from what you were planning to get, can make a massive difference over your career. Say you get that extra $5,000. You decide to invest that money. You get a 7% rate of return, 40 years. The over a million dollars, small change makes a massive difference. So Serge, give us a little bit about, where, what you see from people, when they enter the corporate workforce and they take these salaries and the big mistakes they make along the way.
[00:01:34] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. I think it’s two parts. The first part is, and we can jump into it is like the negotiation part, right? You get an offer, how do you negotiate what you look for? What are the best ways to at least start and set yourself up for success? And then the second part we’ll get into is in your career.
[00:01:53] Lee Michael Murphy: There are these moments where you could stick around at a company for 5, 6, 7, 8 years. But in reality, you’re [00:02:00] only getting two to 4% raises each year. And what I’ve found, I mean, maybe not even a lot of people. I know aren’t even getting those raises.
[00:02:08] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. Some people might not. Right. Like I’m saying on average, what I’ve seen is when I stay at a company for three years, I’m getting just basic minimum raises and people are missing out, especially right now in this market on like 10 to 20% salary raises just by switching where you’re working. so a part of what I wanted to get into is.
And then the first part is just negotiating. But, so I think like to answer your question, the mistakes people make is understanding that everything’s in negotiation. I’ll pause there, but like when you get an offer, you don’t have to accept it right away. Does that make sense?
[00:02:47] Matthew McElroy: Yeah.
I would think that if I was like, really like wanting that job, I think I’d be like kind of scared to, to counter. I know what I mean and be like, Hey, I want to negotiate this. Like, I’d be like, I know they’re just going to show me the door.
[00:02:58] Sergio Patterson: Yeah.
[00:02:58] Lee Michael Murphy: Well, Let’s be honest. We’ve all been [00:03:00] there, right? Like, especially when we started our careers, like when you come out of the college, like we’re giving you this job. Yes. Thank you very much. I was going to take it for free, but you know,
[00:03:10] Matthew McElroy: Yeah. As you get more established, you probably get a little bit more confidence to do things like that. And, take that stand for that.
[00:03:17] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. And dude, like thinking back out of college, like I accepted an $11 and 25 cent job from enterprise. Rent-A-Car think about that.
[00:03:25] Matthew McElroy: Dude. When I graduated law school, I accepted a $12 an hour as a law clerk.
[00:03:33] Lee Michael Murphy: Well, I’ll be both of you guys. I accepted a job that paid me no money where I walked door to door and had people throw shit at me. while I was selling credit card processing equipment. I only made money when I sold the credit card processor, but, then I upgraded and went to enterprise.
[00:03:50] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. But see, that’s the thing we’ve all been there. Right? We’ve all been there at like where we’re in those moments where we don’t feel like we can negotiate. And like some for me, [00:04:00] I remember thinking back where I messed up my Google offer. I remember the recruiter making me an offer and it was $20,000 more base pay than what I was making at the previous company.
So I was stoked. Right. But I probably left. 10 to $15,000 on the table by just saying, I remember asking, Hey, is this negotiable? And he literally just was like, no, it’s not. But I mean, I’m wondering what would have happened if, if I took a step back and said, Hey, you’ve already said they want to make an offer.
I’m the candidate you guys picked. Right. I probably left money on the table by just saying, okay. Cause I was so stoked to get a full-time role at Google.
[00:04:40] Matthew McElroy: Yeah. That’s I could relate to that feeling. Yeah, for sure. That’s it’s huge. You don’t want to turn down something like an opportunity like that.
[00:04:50] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. And it’s one of those things where I think we learn over time to your point, Matt is like, you have to understand that if they’re saying you’re the candidate that they chose after all these rounds of interviews, [00:05:00] you have leverage. Right. So like when you start thinking about negotiating, it’s not just your base pay either.
if we’re talking Silicon valley or pretty much anywhere, there’s other things you can negotiate. So base pay stock by stock. I’m talking like ours, like restricted stock units. So let’s just say, I just went through this with, when I went to LinkedIn, it’s my base pay. It’s the stock. it’s a bonus there’s perks.
[00:05:24] Sergio Patterson: There’s all kinds of things you can negotiate. There’s working from home benefits, all these different things.
So I think like square one is really understand that you have to negotiate. And if you don’t, you are leaving money on the table. So when we talk about maximizing earning potential, it starts in the negotiation stage.
You’re leaving money on the table. If you don’t negotiate.
[00:05:44] Lee Michael Murphy: How do you know though, like maybe you’re new to the workforce, maybe you’re new to the industry. How do you know if you’re leaving money on the table.
[00:05:52] Sergio Patterson: Good. Good question. I think it starts, there’s lots of resources out there. something I’ve been leveraging is obviously like LinkedIn there’s you can search, [00:06:00] job titles. You could search salary ranges on LinkedIn. There’s this site called levels. FYI, where it’s literally a site built to tell you.
you could put in like your job title, the market you’re in and it’ll give you the range of what you should be making.
[00:06:14] Matthew McElroy: What’s it called levels
[00:06:15] Sergio Patterson: it’s called levels. FYI.
[00:06:17] Matthew McElroy: level stuff.
[00:06:18] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. And it’s a really good site and it’s, so the point there is do your research. So if you don’t do your research, you don’t know what your market value is.
So anytime I go into it, Like, interview. I have a good understanding of what I would like, what my expectation is. So I have a range of what I would expect, in, and like, don’t be too, like, don’t shoot yourself in the foot. I think I, in the past, I’ve been way too transparent with what I was making before.
so it’s almost like a game, right? Like the recruiter’s going to ask you what you expect. I would encourage everyone to actually spin the question around to the recruiter. Well, what’s the salary range for this role. You might tell them you were making a hundred thousand, but the [00:07:00] range for this role might be 150 to 180.
[00:07:03] Sergio Patterson: So then they’re like the company is going to try to pay you as the minimum they can, right? Like, let’s just be real. they want you to be at the low end.
[00:07:10] Lee Michael Murphy: Yeah,but a lot of people don’t understand that a lot of people think like, well, I’m just going to get what everyone else has gets regardless. But like, that’s not the way it works. Right.
[00:07:20] Sergio Patterson: No, the company that there’s a range for every role. And again, this is my Silicon valley lens on, I don’t know how the other industries work, but for Silicon valley, there’s like a salary band. So like I’ll share another personal experience. So at Amazon, when I was there, shit place to work again. Uh,
[00:07:38] Lee Michael Murphy: This is going to come after you, man,
[00:07:42] Sergio Patterson: I don’t care. Fuck Amazon. I mean, Amazon is amazing.
It’s
[00:07:45] Lee Michael Murphy: Sergio goes missing. We know Amazon did it.
[00:07:49] Sergio Patterson: but they’re there in that interview process? I probably lost out on some money there. Like I, I was so amazed by their offer. Like, the jump there to be transparent was [00:08:00] a. I think my base paid jump. It was like a 50,000 base pay raise from my previous company, something crazy.
I gave him like a $30,000 range and the offer they gave me was at the top of the range that I gave them.
[00:08:15] Matthew McElroy: Wow.
[00:08:16] Sergio Patterson: So I think I shot myself in the foot though. Cause they were probably like, oh, this guy was, I probably could have gotten more. By
[00:08:24] Matthew McElroy: You didn’t ask the recruiter that the question of what the range was for the
[00:08:28] Sergio Patterson: I did not.
I did not. So that was a learning for me, man. Like I was probably, I probably came in at a low rate and that’s why they gave me the top end of my range
[00:08:37] Matthew McElroy: Yeah. Cause they were planning on yeah.
[00:08:40] Sergio Patterson: yeah. And I lost out on money. And like, I’m just being honest here for the listeners, like where you’re losing out on money. if you really don’t research and understand your. and try to not, you don’t have to give them too much information. I try to get them to tell you what the range is.
[00:08:52] Lee Michael Murphy: Yeah, no, I love that, man. I think another thing that we have to talk about though, is, once you got that job, so many people, they settle, [00:09:00] you see them like one year, two year three fast-forward they’d been there a decade and they’re still getting paid pretty much what they started with. That’s such a terrible mistake.
And on the financial side, right guys, like July to July inflation, is the right great around 5%. People got to understand that, like sometimes your company comes in like, oh, we’re going to give you a 2% raise. We’re going and you, and it’s great. And you think it’s fantastic, but you really have to think about it.
Like part of our podcast. It’s not just about the career advancement, but really focusing on the money. your money is losing value year after year. Your companies owe it to you. The bonus is nice, but also don’t look at it like, oh my gosh, they gave me a 2% bonus. This is amazing.
They didn’t even keep up with inflation. You got to understand that, when you’re in the workforce, like the value of your money is eroding. And especially if you have a government that just prince trillions of fricking dollars, you have to think about those things too. But going back to the, The track of negotiating your salary after the [00:10:00] fact, or negotiating your bonuses.
How do you look at that?
[00:10:03] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. I mean, assuming. So we talked about the negotiation stage and I think like we talked about making sure you get the range from the recruiter. The other part there though is don’t be an asshole about it. Like make sure you’re kind, cause you don’t want this to be like, oh, you’re just looking out for money.
so we talked about negotiation, and then to your point, people ask me like, Hey, you’ve been at all these different companies. You jump every two, three years. And that was very strategic for me. Right? Like I’m a one income household. If I would’ve just stuck, let’s just say at LinkedIn way back in 2012, I wouldn’t be making anywhere near to what I’m making right now.
[00:10:39] Sergio Patterson: Right? For me, when I jump companies, it’s because I’m getting 10 to 15 to 20% raises when I changed companies. So that’s the mistake I see is I think it’s great to stay at a company and if you’re finding opportunities and they’re paying you market value, but a lot of times what I’m seeing.
You’ll see these people [00:11:00] rising and getting promotions, but they’re probably not being paid at market value because companies pay more to bring in outside talent. That’s just a fact.
[00:11:09] Lee Michael Murphy: Yeah. And you can love the company that you work for, but like Sergio, you said like, there’s, it’s good to have a sense of loyalty, but also be realistic. If you, for some reason can’t do your job, they will replace you. how long does it take.
[00:11:22] Sergio Patterson: Two days. I think we were talking about this the other day. Someone’s puts their two weeks and notice it. And like the recruiters probably already have the job records. Like it’s probably already up like a day after they leave. Right. So loyalty is the other thing. I think people spend too much time thinking about being loyal to these companies and especially in Silicon valley, like it’s a machine, the machine is going to work with or without you.
[00:11:42] Lee Michael Murphy: Yeah, you want to do a great job while you’re there and you want to always offer value, but yeah, like they w they will replace you. Tomorrow, if you, if something happens. So you have to think about yourself, great to have loyalty, but also you have to be strategic in your future. The career [00:12:00] trajectory, your income trajectory.
[00:12:02] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. And then the other question I think I get asked a lot is like the timing. When do you know when to leave or like entertain other offers? And the way I think about it is if you’ve been at a place two, three years and there’s no growth happening, you’re not learning anymore.
and you’re doing this research and you realize you’re like, you’re not being paid at market value. those are some signs you should start looking elsewhere. And maybe the culture isn’t the right. or whatever it may be, but like, I think the moral of the story is like, you’re looking out for yourself and I know this sounds selfish, but, you kind of always have to be aware of the market and your market value.
and if you’re not being paid accordingly, Matt, we were talking before the show, I don’t know if we want to say this, but like, I think it’s, everyone’s been there in that moment. You feel like you need to make more money, right. So you have to kind of look out for yourself.
[00:12:50] Matthew McElroy: Yeah, a hundred percent is.
[00:12:52] Lee Michael Murphy: absolutely.
[00:12:53] Matthew McElroy: ran premium, it just becomes that much more important.
[00:12:55] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. And I,those are some of the things you have to think about, from a timing standpoint. But I know a [00:13:00] lot of people who have been at companies for several years and they get comfortable. And for me, I found. Relatively early on that I got really mad at the two. Like you’ve been at a company for a couple of years.
You see the rate, it’s like a 2% raise or whatever. And I remember thinking lead to your point. It’s not even, it doesn’t even cover inflation
[00:13:19] Matthew McElroy: Yeah.
If you’re making the same thing year after year, you’re actually losing money. Right?
[00:13:25] Sergio Patterson: Yeah.
Yeah. it doesn’t work for me. And I think the position I’m in now is I like where I’m at now. I don’t anticipate leaving. anytime soon. but I think there’s people out there now listening to this episode, like if you’ve been somewhere and you’ve only seen these two, 3% raises, like, especially if it’s a priority for you, like you need to maximize your income, like get your resume, ready, understand your market value and, see what else is out there.
I think it’s worth it and you’d be surprised how much more money you can make.
[00:13:52] Lee Michael Murphy: No, I think just as human beings, like we are scared for change. I know I am. I know a lot of other people when you get. [00:14:00] That comfort space. You’re like, I didn’t, well, I know what to expect every day. it can be enticing to just stay where you are because you know what you know, but I would also say that, you’re also kind of doing yourself a disservice.
If you feel like you’ve hit that growth ceiling, like you alluded to, like, once you feel like you’re not growing, you’re kind of just wasting your time. you’re not getting that opportunity. It’s important, to jump around also like, so I think today’s. people are moving more and more, but there’s still that old mindset like, well, why are you jumping Sergio?
Why are you going from this company? And I think, you know that I’ve had a lot enough time to think about this. I think that you should look at it as a strength because the fact that, you’re at a company for a few years, you learn so much. Once you change environments, you learn so much probably when you were at Google that you absorbed all that, and then you went to Amazon and you learned so many more skillsets, and then you jumped to, LinkedIn and every time you do these things, you were learning a massive amount of information and skill sets.
You wouldn’t have [00:15:00] gotten if you had just stayed in one place. So I think, when you’re going to these interviews and you’re looking for that next job, and if any, one calls out that, Hey, you’ve moved from here to here. I think you should reframe that as well. Yes. This is why this is what makes me more valuable because I’ve learned all the processes from this company.
And then I learned all the processes from this company. So instead of letting that be like a weakness, I really think it, you should frame it as a strength in the interview, but also let’s be realistic. It really is a strength. I mean, so would you say that like you’ve learned more by doing these jumps and
putting yourself in different.
[00:15:36] Sergio Patterson: yeah, I think that’s a really good call-out and I a hundred percent agree, like jumping from these different companies you learn. I do like, mess around and say Amazon was terrible, but like I learned a ton in that year. I was there. I helped launch a new product. Like in those experiences, that’s just building my resume.
Right. That’s building my talking points in my interviews. So I can [00:16:00] like go to these different companies. They’re like, oh, well, what’d you do here? I was like, well, I helped launch a, the first one of a kind product at Amazon. Like I was a part of that. and th that can never be taken away. So to your point, a hundred percent agree, like use it as a strength.
and get really clear on, on the why the other part of it is like, it’s not just about money. you also have to realize changing companies can also be about like what you’re passionate about, what you believe in like leaving Facebook. Some of it was most of it wasn’t about money. It was more about culture and Facebook in general, I think is a, it’s doing more harm than good.
[00:16:33] Sergio Patterson: Right. So I think LinkedIn is a place that can really get behind. So I think that’s the other part. When you think about leaving a company, you think about the value and the mission. And then the money’s is obviously a big component.
[00:16:45] Lee Michael Murphy: Yeah, well said, man. Well said, so yeah guys, if you guys are having struggles, like landing that job, feel like you’re stagnant, reach out to Serge. Cause he is a wealth of information. I go to him. he’s like my personal sounding board when I’m like lost [00:17:00] with the decisions, but yeah, that’s some good, got some great tips all the time, to close.
what can, what advice can we give to the people that, feel like they’re stagnant, like in their like been stuck, they’re not going anywhere. what’s some advice you can give them, to start moving in the right direction.
[00:17:14] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. I think the first question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to stay at this company? Right? Like, and if the answer is, yes, you have to have like a number of reasons why? but at the answer’s no, then you have to start thinking about, okay, is my resume ready? What’s my presence on LinkedIn. start building out your network, understanding who, you know, who, you know,that works, where, and start, getting ready for these interviews, put some feelers out there, put some applications out there.
and don’t be afraid to do it because like we said earlier, these companies are going to work with, or without you. so always be prepared. I think that my biggest advice is always be prepared to jump if you have to. And always have something in your back pocket to jump if you need to.
[00:17:53] Sergio Patterson: And if you have to,
[00:17:55] Lee Michael Murphy: And Serge one thing you’ve mentioned before in a past episode is the 80 20 lets you like [00:18:00] give the good listeners the eight year 80 20. Cause I really like, like it, I think it’s a really great way to assess if you’re in the right place.
[00:18:07] Sergio Patterson: yeah, I think that’s a good point. Like we’re not going to love everything we do all the time. but if you’re in a role and you’ve, you’re enjoying like 80% of the stuff you do, you’re probably in a good place. and if you have a good leader, like those things mean something like by all means if you’re a company with a great manager and leadership, but the pay isn’t great.
But your work-life balance is like, by all means stay. and then you can expect like 20% of the stuff you do mind, you might not. So I think that’s actually a good balance, 80, 20, but if it’s like 50 50, where you’re doing 50% of the time, you’re doing shit you don’t like, that’s another signal you should probably start to think about jumping.
[00:18:45] Lee Michael Murphy: Absolutely.
[00:18:50] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. It just, you’re just dead inside.
[00:18:54] Matthew McElroy: It’s pretty accurate.
[00:18:57] Sergio Patterson: But yeah, I think we’re all there, man. Like we all have [00:19:00] moments where we need to think. And, the, the biggest, the bigger picture is like, what I’m trying to get through is prioritize yourself. Don’t worry about the company. Don’t worry about your manager. Prioritize yourself.
[00:19:12] Lee Michael Murphy: Self and your family, right?
[00:19:13] Sergio Patterson: Yeah. You and yourself. That means you’re prioritizing your family.
[00:19:16] Lee Michael Murphy: All right. Thanks man. You’ve been listening to The Free Retiree Show. So long for now.