How Women Can Find Their Voices and Be Heard in Corporate America

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[00:00:00] Lee Michael Murphy: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning into your go-to podcast. All things, career money and business, the free retiree show. I’m your host wealth manager, Lee Michael Murphy. And I’m joined alongside interview coach and Silicon valley mentor, Sergio Patterson.

[00:00:16] Sergio Patterson: What is up everyone

[00:00:18] Lee Michael Murphy: for today’s discussion topic.

[00:00:19] Lee Michael Murphy: We’re going to be talking about women speaking out and being heard in corporate America. All too often, we hear women say. They aren’t being heard at their companies, that their voices are often ignored. They feel they can’t communicate their true feelings of how they feel in the workplace. And obviously with societal organizational and personal pressures that they experienced on the daily, that their male counterparts don’t, the true feeling of are they being heard is one that many of them feel that they struggle with. And as a result all too often, they’re passed up on promotion opportunities and advancement opportunities that they’re all often too capable of [00:01:00] and very well do deserve. So Serge, you, and I’ve talked about this at length.

[00:01:06] Lee Michael Murphy: How do you feel about where the culture is at in Silicon valley in corporate America in general and women and their struggles with being heard?

[00:01:14] Sergio Patterson: On the surface, you would think some of the biggest companies like Facebook and Google and on the surface, it seems like there’s progress. ~Um, ~and they really care about it. And I think they do, but that there’s a lot to be done in terms of, representation. ~Uh, ~in leadership levels and positions, I think it’s, we’re still like way behind.

[00:01:33] Sergio Patterson: So while there’s been some progress, there’s still a lot of work to do. ~Um, ~cause I know it’s a problem just being in Silicon valley for the last 10, 11 years. ~Uh, ~there’s a number of women I know who have just struggled with this. ~Uh, ~and I don’t think we’ve come as far along as they would leave you to believe.

[00:01:50] Lee Michael Murphy: Yes, a hundred percent. So for today, we are excited to have Rehmat Kharal as our guest speaker. She’s the VP of global sales and enablement at big Panda. [00:02:00] And she’s one of the 2021 women of influence in Silicon valley. She also leads women in tech initiative at big Panda, and she’s received numerous honors throughout her career among them.

[00:02:11] Lee Michael Murphy: The drum major president’s award for Barack Obama, for her work with schools, police departments at hospitals and dispelling bias against minority communities. She is also a wife and mother of three, and she’s a huge advocate for women finding their voice and bringing their authentic self to work. So Serg.

[00:02:30] Lee Michael Murphy: This is what I’m really excited for. I know you have a daughter and you care about her future. ~Uh, ~one thing I was thinking about before. Started this episode was, ~you know, ~all too often, we tell young girls that, ~you know, ~do you want to be successful in business? All you have to do is just work as hard as that guy.

[00:02:48] Lee Michael Murphy: That’s in that big leadership position, and I’m going to drop a heavy one on you today. Your daughter

[00:02:55] Sergio Patterson: texted me the question before

[00:02:57] Lee Michael Murphy: you really believe it. When you [00:03:00] said, Hey, if you work just as hard, you’re going to get just as much opportunity.

[00:03:04] Sergio Patterson: ~Uh, ~so this is tough. So I have a five-year old and. ~Uh, I ~I’m scared, because ~ uh,~ I think society kind of programs for whatever reason, ~the wrong, ~the wrong stuff, for little girls.

[00:03:12] Sergio Patterson: And,~ uh,~ I think every day we just try to say, be confident, be strong,~ um,~ and do whatever you can. But I think it’s just like, until somebody changes. Even if she works just as hard as the other guy out there, she may not have access to the same opportunity. So do I believe it? No. ~Um, ~two, I think I’m, we’re going to raise like a really strong little girl and she’s going to be successful.

[00:03:30] Sergio Patterson: Yes. But like,

[00:03:32] Sergio Patterson: it’s not going to be that way for everyone.

[00:03:34] Lee Michael Murphy: Cool. Yeah. And ~I, ~I kind of echo your,~ uh,~ your sentiment, so really excited to hear what Rehmat’s got. ~Uh, ~we’re going to go a quick break before we do so make sure you like our show share us. And if you have any questions, finance-related, career-related, legal related, or even a question for Rehmat make sure you send it to ask@thefreeretiree.com.

[00:03:52] Lee Michael Murphy: We’re going to take a quick break, but when we’re back, we’ll be sitting down with VP Rehmat Kharal.

[00:03:57] Lee Michael Murphy: Welcome back in to the [00:04:00] free retirees show. We’re sitting down with a Rehmat Kharal. Rehmat, how are you doing?

[00:04:05] Rehmat Kharal: Doing very well, thank you. We

[00:04:07] Lee Michael Murphy: are so happy to have you. And,~ uh, you know, ~we want to bring on a great resource for this discussion. Someone that really knows this space. Why do you think it is so difficult?

[00:04:16] Lee Michael Murphy: and such a challenge for women in corporate America to find their voice and be heard.

[00:04:22] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah. ~You know, ~it’s funny cause ~you know, ~we’re in 2021 and you would think that the challenges would be fewer, right. ~For, ~for women to find their voice in corporate America. But. I kind of feel like the reason that it’s continuing to be an uphill challenge is because of how women are portrayed.

[00:04:40] Rehmat Kharal: Right? Just generally speaking, whether you look at social media and Instagram accounts, ~you know, ~the most followed people on Instagram are females that are models that are taking selfies of themselves. So when you kind of look at that kind of portrayal ~of, ~of women out there, those are the quote unquote new role models [00:05:00] that are our young daughters and.

[00:05:01] Rehmat Kharal: Young females are going up, looking at. It’s a little bit superficial in my opinion, right? Because it’s all about how do I look? And as a result of that, it’s creating a number of different problems. One obviously moving up in corporate America, because women aren’t looked at in the same way, the men that are most famous on Instagram, aren’t the ones that are taking selfies.

[00:05:20] Rehmat Kharal: You know what they look at. Like, it’s more like, ~you know, ~the trainings, the motivations,~ the,~ the workout routines, that kind of thing. ~Um, ~and then I think, secondly, it creates a lot of insecurities in young women as well. Right. And when those insecurities, whether you’re trying to make it in corporate America or make it anywhere else, we’re creating these roadblocks for ourselves.

[00:05:38] Rehmat Kharal: So I think there’s a number of different factors, but,~ um,~ social media definitely isn’t helping.

[00:05:42] Sergio Patterson: Scary, like even letting my daughter watch,~ ~

[00:05:45] Sergio Patterson: ~um,~ Barbie,

[00:05:46] Sergio Patterson: like I hate it cause she likes the show, but it’s so dumb. , ~what, ~what are they portraying? She’s just, all these guys are after her. And she has lived in this pink mansion, so it’s tough, but like, ~you know, ~what do we do?

[00:05:59] Sergio Patterson: She’s [00:06:00] five years

[00:06:00] Sergio Patterson: old. She likes Barbie.

[00:06:02] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah. Yeah, it’s funny because I, like Lee mentioned, I’ve got three daughters myself, and, ~you know, ~obviously growing up in today’s world where, ~you know, ~taking selfies and self images is a really big thing out there. ~Um, ~and it’s funny cause I do a lot of different speaking engagements and I got pictures taken for press releases and all of that kind of fun stuff.

[00:06:21] Rehmat Kharal: And one of the questions my kids always say to me is mom, you should get your hair done, mom, you should do this. And I said, I don’t want to, especially when I have these different events that I have to go to because. We shouldn’t play so much important as on our looks. And I always try to emphasize that.

[00:06:36] Rehmat Kharal: And when they want to take pictures with me, I will on purpose make like a goofy face because I don’t want to take it so seriously or take myself so seriously. And I think it’s one of those things with it. With kids, ~you know, ~honestly, Sergio I don’t think it’s about what we say to them. It’s about how we live ~and, ~and what we show them.

[00:06:54] Rehmat Kharal: ~And, ~and for me, honestly, I stayed at home for 13 years, raising my three girls [00:07:00] and then decided to go back to work,~ um,~ after that 13 years. And I think my story. Is what I want my kids to learn from. Meaning you can be at home,~ uh,~ you can raise your kids, you can do all of this kind of fun stuff, but you can still climb that corporate ladder.

[00:07:15] Rehmat Kharal: And I think, again, it’s not what we say to them. It’s what we do and how we present ourselves.

[00:07:20] Lee Michael Murphy: What do you, women that feel that, ~you know, ~those decisions of being a wife, being a mother might hold them back from, ~you know, ~being able to climb that ladder? Like, do you have any advice for them on how they overcome those situations or they feel like. They’d be looked at a light that doesn’t make it worth their career to pursue and go after, because ~you know, ~they’re not fully vested in corporate America.

[00:07:46] Rehmat Kharal: No. I mean, I’ve my advice to them as, Hey, your being a wife and a partner ~to, ~to your spouse. And I think it’s more, it’s not husband and wife. It’s about being partners and having a great partnership at home and being able to raise [00:08:00] kids. Those are skills you will never learn out in the workforce. You’ll never learn them on the sales floor ever.

[00:08:07] Rehmat Kharal: What you learn at home. I would use that. Ammunition as your training as a, Hey, I’ve got this and you know what, the guy that you just interviewed next to me, he doesn’t have the same experience of juggling two or three or five different kids and juggling dinner and trying to make a career and maintain my education and be a good et cetera, et cetera.

[00:08:26] Rehmat Kharal: All of these things, I have all of that, and I’ve done that successfully. And the proof of me doing that successfully is that you are comparing me the male candidates who have not taken a breath who have not taken a break. I’ve taken a break, and yet I can apply for the same position. I would say, honestly, use it as a strength.

[00:08:44] Rehmat Kharal: It’s not a negative, it’s a positive.

[00:08:48] Sergio Patterson: I definitely a hundred percent agree. It’s a positive. I think there’s a stigma though. Like my wife’s stay at home mom and I’d argue, her job is tougher than mine. I’m juggling the whole house. She’s like a project manager [00:09:00] essentially. ~Um, ~so I definitely think it’s like a positive, but I do think there’s a stigma that needs to be overcome.

[00:09:05] Sergio Patterson: ~Uh, ~and I hope it changes. ~Um, ~I was going to pivot a little bit and ask you about. Your experience being a VP? ~Um, ~my assumption is that a lot of the rooms that you’re in, you’re not only a woman, but you’re a woman of color. ~Um, ~so what is that like? What has your experience been? How do you navigate that world where you

[00:09:22] Sergio Patterson: might be the only one?

[00:09:24] Rehmat Kharal: When I walk into a room and,~ uh,~ and yes, I am a female VP woman of color. I don’t see myself as any different than anybody else sitting around that table. ~And, ~and I think sometimes, ~you know, ~the stigmas that women create for themselves,~ um,~ only exist ~in, ~ in our heads.

[00:09:39] Rehmat Kharal: They don’t actually exist in the rest of the room and if they do,~ um,~ you’re not helping by having any sort of insecurity sitting around that table. For me, it’s about when I show them. ~Um, ~I’m very raw and ~very, ~very real. And I think people don’t expect that. I think when you are the only female executive that’s sitting in the room, people expect you to be.

[00:09:59] Rehmat Kharal: Not super [00:10:00] talkative, not super involved in the conversation, a very kind of laid back. ~Uh, ~my approach is completely different. If I find somebody says something, I don’t care if it’s the CEO of the company. And I don’t agree. ~Um, ~I will immediately say, I don’t agree with you. ~Um, ~the fact that I’m a woman or a woman of color does not stop me because honestly speaking my mind and being honest is what’s gotten me here as far.

[00:10:20] Rehmat Kharal: ~Um, ~and I don’t see myself as any different, honestly, I. I always talk about salespeople being competitive. I’m super competitive as well. ~You know, ~give me a challenge, put me up against a male VP of female VP. ~Um, ~give us the same challenge. Let’s see, who does better. ~I ~I’m up for that challenge. And that’s how I think every woman needs to view herself is when you walk into the room, you’re no different.

[00:10:40] Rehmat Kharal: You’re just as capable, if not more. And you need to start having that same sort of confidence in yourself.

[00:10:45] Sergio Patterson: Save this clip listeners. ~Uh, ~that was a mic drop right there. Yeah, for

[00:10:49] Lee Michael Murphy: sure. For sure. Yeah, but you know, you bring up an interesting point. So in, in studies they’ve shown that women are just as ambitious as men.

[00:10:59] Lee Michael Murphy: [00:11:00] However, they also show that women tend to lack self-confidence in the workplace because I think in my opinion, They experienced a lot other pressures that men don’t have to experience, but you seem to master that self-confidence what was your journey like mastering yourself confidence and finding your voice?

[00:11:21] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah, ~that’s a, ~that’s a really interesting question.

[00:11:23] Rehmat Kharal: I’d say honestly, it’s really about watching people and observing the room and a lot of the time. We walk into certain circumstances, whether they’re social or corporate circumstances. And we have this clutch, right. I always say it like in a social circumstance, a woman’s clutch usually is her kids socially or her purse.

[00:11:44] Rehmat Kharal: Right. And it’s like, you walk into that room. You don’t have a ton of confidence. You don’t know everybody who’s there. You may not know anyone you’re searching for that one friend that you may know in the room. And until you find them, you hang on to your kids, right. And then you find them and then [00:12:00] you let your kids go out and play.

[00:12:01] Rehmat Kharal: I bring that up because I feel like that happens a lot. Even in today’s corporate world. Right now everybody has their device in their hand and you walk into any sort of corporate environment. You’re constantly looking at your device. That’s your clutch until you walk into the room and you find somebody that you can have a conversation with.

[00:12:18] Rehmat Kharal: For me, it was all about, ~you know, ~watching the people who walk into the room without that clutch, right. Without anything that they’re relying on and it’s just their own, self-confidence the way they walk into the room, the way they speak their mind. And if you look at the different CEO’s out there and I’m going to say only 7% of CEOs in the world today are female.

[00:12:38] Rehmat Kharal: Which is crazy to me because we are in 2021, it’s only 7%. For me, honestly, like that the journey was watching people, wanting to emulate people and understanding why they were a certain way. And I realized that. The most confident people are the people who are themselves. Let’s take Steve jobs for instance, right?

[00:12:55] Rehmat Kharal: He has this amazing journey, did not care about his. And I [00:13:00] say this with all due respect, but his physical appearance, like he was like jeans black. ~You know, ~that didn’t matter because he kind of walked in, said, doesn’t matter what I’m wearing. It’s about who I am. It’s about what I have to offer.

[00:13:11] Rehmat Kharal: And if you get to know me, you’re going to get to know that. And I think that’s the journey is to say, I’m worth it. ~You know, ~I have a lot to offer. If you want to know what I have to offer,~ get, get to know, ~get to know me. ~And, ~and I think the journey, honestly, it’s just being raw and real and every single situation socially or corporately, it doesn’t matter.

[00:13:31] Rehmat Kharal: Just be yourself. ~Um, ~and I know it sounds like really just be yourself, but ~you, you, ~you won’t, you can’t imagine how many people aren’t themselves anymore because of media, social media, the way that we have to portray ourselves, people aren’t real anymore. ~Um, ~there’s very few of us. So try going against the norm and being real.

[00:13:51] Rehmat Kharal: And I think you’re gonna make a lot of strides.

[00:13:53] Sergio Patterson: Yeah, authenticity. Right. I think that’s kind of~ kind of what, ~what clicked for me as I was listening to you is be authentic. And I think [00:14:00] you being in sales enablement, my assumption ~is, ~is like, I think the best salespeople are also very real and authentic and they connect with their customers.

[00:14:07] Sergio Patterson: And I think there’s this whole trickle down effect,~ um,~ in Silicon valley the best. I think the people who performed the best ~in that, ~in that area are ones who can be themselves and be real and connect. ~Um, ~so I love that. That makes

[00:14:17] Rehmat Kharal: sense a hundred percent. And that is what I tell my salespeople as well.

[00:14:21] Rehmat Kharal: Right. People aren’t buying a product, they’re buying from a person they like, and they’re not going to like you, if you’re not authentic. And if you’re not real and just being honest, authentic, I have to share a really funny story with you guys. I was invited to speak at an event,~ um, very, ~very early in my career.

[00:14:38] Rehmat Kharal: And I would say there was about 3,500 or so people in the audience and. My first real live speaking engagement in my career. And,~ um,~ they put the little lapel mic on me ~and, ~and I went out there and I was about to introduce myself,~ um,~ and start my talk. And I felt a sneeze coming on. I was like, oh [00:15:00] my God.

[00:15:00] Lee Michael Murphy: ~And, ~and I held the sneeze and you know what happens when you hold your sneeze

[00:15:03] Rehmat Kharal: like a funny sound comes out. And so that sound was broadcast. I just started laughing. You know what, this is a great way to introduce myself. ~You know, ~I’m, Rehmat Kharal on your speaker today talking about such and such topic.

[00:15:18] Rehmat Kharal: And I’m real, I’ve been where you are listening to somebody else on stage and as you can stand. And it was funny because immediately I connected with people because I was authentic and I was real. And I think that’s the biggest thing is the more authentic and real you are the better you’re going to do in any aspect of your life.

[00:15:35] Rehmat Kharal: And it’s ~really, ~really sad to me because. I forget how it’s evolved, but how it’s being used and consumed by younger people and even older people today. ~Um, ~we’re losing that authenticity.

[00:15:46] Sergio Patterson: Yeah, you would think everybody’s a millionaire and on vacation,

[00:15:49] Sergio Patterson: everybody’s smiling all the time. It’s like fairytale life. ~Um, ~yeah. Aligned with you there a hundred

[00:15:54] Lee Michael Murphy: percent. So I got to ask you a question on,~ uh,~ women that feel that they are being held back [00:16:00] from, ~you know, ~certain leadership, male counterparts. ~Uh, ~I have a lot of people in my own personal life that are women that are extremely intelligent and,~ uh,~ probably should have progressed further in their career than they have, or they did,~ uh,~ because they work in organizations that were dominated by males.

[00:16:16] Lee Michael Murphy: Upper male management and they couldn’t seem to break that,~ uh,~ To overcome the odds. How would you coach a woman that’s in that environment and tell her where to start and how to overcome these obstacles?

[00:16:32] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah, that’s a really great question because I feel like you’re right. There are a lot of people in that situation.

[00:16:38] Rehmat Kharal: ~Um, ~referred to this as red flags syndrome, right? Like you join a company and you have all these different aspirations ~of, ~of climbing, ~you know, ~in your role getting to the next level. ~Um, ~but after you’re there for about three months or six months, or even a year, you start seeing these little red flags ~and, ~and oftentimes women ignore the red flags.

[00:16:57] Rehmat Kharal: Right. Kind of [00:17:00] just happy to have a job. Somebody gave us a chance, ~you know, we’re, ~we’re really wanting to prove ourselves and do all of this. So we ignore the red flags, but you know, after nine months of seeing these red flags, there, you start smelling a little bit of smoke. And I always say, when there’s smoke, there’s fire.

[00:17:16] Rehmat Kharal: Right. And you’re never going to stay in a situation where there’s a fire surrounding you. I think my advice is if you start seeing those red flags and after my advice is after being at a company for nine months, if you’re not having that conversation with your manager to say, Hey, this is where I see myself, ~you know, ~a year from now, what can you do to help me get there if you’re not having that conversation?

[00:17:40] Rehmat Kharal: One, because you’re not comfortable with your manager. Or to you have that conversation with your manager and you don’t get an answer, but you think is that fulfills you, that you think is sincere. That is on track. It’s time to leave. And that’s okay. ~Um, ~because you’ve learned a lot and I think showing the [00:18:00] brevity of being to say, Hey, you know what?

[00:18:02] Rehmat Kharal: I totally enjoyed working with you learned a time, but I don’t see a lot of career growth. For me shows a different level of confidence that a lot of people, men or women don’t have. ~And, ~and trying somewhere else. And I think that is 110%. Okay. Lee and I did that, ~you know, years and ~years and years ago, ~ uh, you know, ~I wanted this position as a buyer for a really large retail company.

[00:18:27] Rehmat Kharal: And I was brand new in my career. I was actually still doing in my master’s and I really wanted that buyer position. And I went on vacation. They gave the job to somebody else didn’t even interview me for that buyer position, because they were like, oh, well, you’re on vacation. And we needed to fill the head.

[00:18:43] Rehmat Kharal: And I said, great, here’s my resignation. I’m leaving. They’re like, wait, you can’t leave. You’re one of our top salespeople. And I said, well, if you wanted me to stay, you would have waited for me to come back from a one week vacation and given me a chance and you did it. I kid you not as I had my box [00:19:00] packed and I was walking to the car, I had them following me, asking me to see.

[00:19:05] Rehmat Kharal: And I said, sorry, too little too late. You’ve got to value yourself. You got to value yourself. And I think knowing the value you bring, I’d say, Hey, listen, red flags, lots of opportunity. Whether you’re in the bay area or anywhere else, the pandemic has made the world a place where you can work from anywhere and do ~really, ~really well.

[00:19:25] Rehmat Kharal: And I would use that as an opportunity to say, thanks so much learnt a ton from you, but it’s time to take what I’ve learned. And move on and now I’m not even going to apply for the same position I’m in now I’m developed, apply for the position that I want. ~Um, ~and I think it’s okay to do that. I think not enough people do it

[00:19:41] Sergio Patterson: so ~that ~that’s like mind blowing to me.

[00:19:42] Sergio Patterson: You said this was early in your career, , it sounds like you had that confidence to be able to know your worth and value. So is it safe to assume that your parents, I think you’ve mentioned that they were both in sales or they kind of doing what you said earlier about not just talking but showing.

[00:19:58] Sergio Patterson: ~Is, ~is that where your strength came from? Cause a lot of [00:20:00] people don’t have that early in their

[00:20:01] Rehmat Kharal: career. Yeah, I think so. That’s a really great point, Sergio. Yeah. My father was very first dealer for Mazda and Volvo and north America, Indian migrants. He had come to the us when he was 17 years old. Did everything kind of made himself into what he was and loved cars, loved, loved cars, took a chance.

[00:20:22] Rehmat Kharal: They gave him this opportunity. He went out and he was ~very, ~very successful and I saw him constantly change and constantly evolve. And yeah, I think that’s where that confidence comes from his belief again in yourself. And I saw my dad have so much belief, even in my mom, he would actually buy dying businesses and say, Hey, you have a business degree, fix this business and let’s sell it.

[00:20:44] Rehmat Kharal: And that’s what they did. That’s what they did. So I was like, wait shit. ~You know, ~if something’s not working, my dad didn’t put a bandaid on. ~He, ~he fixed it. He found a solution and the solution was within us. And so, yeah, absolutely. I think that confidence definitely comes from your surroundings. And to your point, [00:21:00] it’s not about saying it’s about doing and observing,~ um,~ and putting all of the, connecting all the dots and becoming who you could be.

[00:21:07] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah.

[00:21:09] Sergio Patterson: Well, it might be a tough question for you around you’ve mentioned red flags syndrome. I’m curious, given that you’re a leader, are you able to spot when people are specifically when women in your org are going through something like, let’s just say,~ they’re,~ they’re struggling. They’re not growing, you’re leading.

[00:21:27] Sergio Patterson: Like, are you able to kind of spot that? ~Um, ~and have you had that experience being in Silicon valley and have you helped anyone.

[00:21:35] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah, a hundred percent. So it’s funny you ask that question. One of the things that I focused on in the pandemic was emotional intelligence because I found that via video. ~Um, ~yeah, you can kind of tell, ~you know, ~what’s going on, but we’re focusing more on the voice and we are on.

[00:21:49] Rehmat Kharal: ~Uh, you know, ~body gestures and movements and facial expressions and all of that. So one thing that I really focused on was facial expressions and emotional intelligence of th ~you know, ~when we talk about something, somebody [00:22:00] smiling, frowning, ~you know, ~what’s happening? ~What, what, ~what is the room telling me?

[00:22:03] Rehmat Kharal: And I would say, yes, if I notice red flags, I think I’m hyper aware of the red flags and I’ve had people on my team that say, ~You know, ~I’ve given certain people on my team a chance, right? Because I saw a huge potential in them ~and, ~and I saw red flags, like they’re going to leave the company if they are not promoted in some way.

[00:22:22] Rehmat Kharal: So I’ve brought them onto my team. They’re amazing. These people are ~really, ~really great at what they do. ~Um, ~so I try to make sure if I see there’s any sort of red flag, honestly, this you’re going to succeed in life. If you have really good communication,~ um,~ and not to hide behind anything. So I say, let’s talk about it.

[00:22:41] Rehmat Kharal: I noticed you weren’t happy with X, Y, or Z. Let’s talk about it. Like, and when I say this, I sincerely mean it because I’ve had some not so great managers, some great ones. I talked to them as friends, rather than as a manager, I want to be more of a mentor to the people on my team. Then I [00:23:00] want to be their manager.

[00:23:01] Rehmat Kharal: How can I help you? ~And, ~and I hope that’s, nobody’s complained so far. So I don’t know for a hundred percent, but you know, I definitely think I’ve become hyper aware of the red flags. And as a part of what I do is I do work with sales leaders across the company to say, Hey, do I notice any red flags just based on performance, et cetera.

[00:23:22] Rehmat Kharal: ~And, ~and as a company, I think,~ um,~ big Panda does a really good job ~of, ~of being good to their people, noticing those. And if there are any red flags trying to address them, so that’s

[00:23:31] Sergio Patterson: awesome. Yeah. I think it’s important to be proactive because cause right now it’s like, I don’t know if you’ve heard this thing like that.

[00:23:37] Sergio Patterson: Reshuffle or re the great resignation, like people are starting to think about moving. They’ve been home for a year and a half. Like maybe I can go to this company. So I think for the leaders out there, if you’re listening, it’s important to,~ um,~ do what Rehmat’s doing, like, be aware, be proactive and have those conversations.

[00:23:51] Lee Michael Murphy: So I want to ask you, since you have so much experience in the sales world, I, and that’s what you do. You help with training and [00:24:00] you make people top notch sales representatives. ~Uh, ~what is it that makes a fantastic sales representative ~in your, ~?

[00:24:05] Rehmat Kharal: I think, ~you know, ~the answer to this, but I’m going to say it,~ um,~ be real, be authentic.

[00:24:09] Rehmat Kharal: I think that’s what makes a great salesperson and be open to learning. Right? I have to plug enablement. Enablement is a brand new, ~you know, ~phenomenon that’s come across, I think in the last five or six years and in companies where there’s an entire department dedicated to enabling. Listen the best and the smartest people out there, whether they’re in sales or in anything else are the people who continue to learn and grow.

[00:24:34] Rehmat Kharal: When you stop growing, you’re not going to be good at anything. ~You know, ~you’re going to become static. You’re going to get bored. You’re not going to be able to any aspects of your life. So I think if you want to succeed as a sales person, One that you gotta be authentic and gotta be real. I think as anybody out there, you gotta be authentic and real, but definitely as a salesperson and you got to continue to learn because yes, people will.

[00:24:58] Rehmat Kharal: If they like you, they’re going to want to [00:25:00] buy from you. But if you can’t build that credibility because you don’t have the knowledge that you need to answer the questions that your prospects are asking. Becomes harder to close a deal. You can still close it, but your sales cycle is going to be much longer, which means your paycheck is going to come much later.

[00:25:14] Rehmat Kharal: So continue to grow and learn and be real. Be raw.

[00:25:19] Sergio Patterson: I know at my company, the enablement team is huge and the work they do is like critical to anything. Any product that gets launched to push the field? I think,~ um,~ I guess the other thing I think was sales is I realized early in my career that I was not good at sales.

[00:25:35] Sergio Patterson: I think like the best sales person, like they know themselves, that’s what comes to mind for me. Like they either are good at sales and you love it. Or like you need to get into another field. I think like too many people just stay in sales because it was like their first job out of college or something and they get stuck.

[00:25:52] Sergio Patterson: But it might not be for them. I don’t know if you’ve seen that, but I feel like

[00:25:55] Lee Michael Murphy: that

[00:25:55] Rehmat Kharal: happens a lot. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think sales is a really good [00:26:00] fallback career for people if they don’t know what they want to do, but I definitely think it takes a certain personality to succeed in sale and to be happy.

[00:26:09] Rehmat Kharal: Listen, there are some people who. Choose careers, whether they’re in sales or anything else. And they’re just like, you know what, I’m going to do the bare minimum. I’m going to get my paycheck and I’m going to live and Hey, ~you know, ~all the power to them, if that’s what makes them happy. Great. But the people, the successful salespeople are the ones who honestly are not your ~typical, ~typical quote, unquote sales person right there.

[00:26:30] Rehmat Kharal: Those people who think outside of the box and they ~here, ~here’s another story for you, Sergio. When I started off in Silicon valley here, I was looking for work, trying to figure out what I wanted to do and guess what I wanted to be a salesperson. And so I went to a pharmaceutical company and,~ um,~ I’ll never forget.

[00:26:47] Rehmat Kharal: They said, Hey, have you watched the Wolf of wall street? I haven’t really a movie buff. I was like,

[00:26:53] Lee Michael Murphy: ~you know, ~and

[00:26:53] Rehmat Kharal: they gave me a pen and they said, okay, ~you’ve got, ~you’ve got 30 seconds. Tell me this. And I was like, what the hell? [00:27:00] And it was funny because,~ um,~ I was able to sell them the pen, but it wasn’t because I focused on the penny.

[00:27:06] Rehmat Kharal: It was because of the questions that I asked them. Right. How often are you going to use that pen? Do you need a blue ink or blocking pen? Because this one only comes in blue. Do you always wear a white jacket? Because Hey, you’re a doctor. Cause

[00:27:18] Rehmat Kharal: I think for good salespeople, ~you know, ~if you want to go out there and you’re wondering, Hey, is sales for me? Am I going to be good at it? When you have conversations with people, are you talking most of the time or are you listening? And when you’re talking, are you asking questions or are you just talking at people because successful salespeople, people who are good at what they do, and ~you know, ~that’s a career for them are those that are talking 20% of the time.

[00:27:45] Rehmat Kharal: And that 20% of the time is asking questions and listening the other 80% of the time. ~Um, ~and again, thinking outside of the box, like the types of questions you’re going to ask. I hope that answers your question.

[00:27:56] Lee Michael Murphy: I actually had a similar experience. When I came out of college, I was [00:28:00] trying to find a job and,~ uh,~ I wasn’t aware of the whole sell this pen question. I had this interview with three other people in the room, so it was already nerve wracking. ~You know, ~your kid coming out of college, you got three people looking at you from across the table until they sell his bed.

[00:28:14] Lee Michael Murphy: ~Uh, ~so what I did is ~I, ~I got up,~ uh,~ leaned across the table and I grabbed all three of the pens that they had in their hands. And I said, how much do you want for this pen? That’s

[00:28:26] Sergio Patterson: pretty good.

[00:28:28] Lee Michael Murphy: They didn’t call me back though.

[00:28:30] Lee Michael Murphy: Oh, man. Well, I gotta ask you another question. ~You know, ~obviously your father has had an amazing impact on your life. Yeah, he’s taught you so much. I think it’s probably a big reason why you’re so successful. ~Um, ~what do you want and what do you want for your daughters and what do you want to them to remember you as?

[00:28:51] Rehmat Kharal: Yeah, that’s a really good question. What I want for my daughters is I don’t want them to ever have any [00:29:00] regrets. ~Um, ~every thing that whether we succeed at it, or if we fail at it, it’s a learning experience. And I want them to always think of life in that way. ~You know, ~it’s not like, oh, I didn’t do well in this.

[00:29:10] Rehmat Kharal: Or, ~you know, I, ~I feel that whatever,~ um,~ it’s more, what did I learn from it? So I want them to always. Think positively about everything that’s in their life. I think that’s a really big one for me. ~Um, ~I also want them to know that anything is possible. Literally anything is possible, whether you want to be the president of the United States or you want to start

[00:29:34] Rehmat Kharal: your own company, your destiny is in your hands. It’s not in anybody, else’s hands and don’t give people the power to think that they can control your life because you know what, whether it’s my daughter or somebody else out there that’s unhappy in their career, or why are we so willingly giving up power for people to dictate how we live our lives.

[00:29:56] Rehmat Kharal: If you’re unhappy with something you’re unhappy in a situation. [00:30:00] You do have the power to get up and try something else. ~Um, ~so I really want them to know that and not ~the, ~the biggest success in life is, ~you know, ~having something to hold onto, having faith, having guidance, having some sort of direction, if you are just kind of going through the motions and yeah.

[00:30:18] Rehmat Kharal: Hey, you’re a successful neurosurgeon, but you have no empathy towards others. You haven’t given back to the community. Have you really succeeded? In my opinion now, I mean, you got to live a balanced life, a happy, balanced life without any roadblocks or giving people power to, ~you know, ~control you. You’re in control of your own quote unquote destiny you’re in control of your own life and ~happiness, ~happiness in life.

[00:30:45] Rehmat Kharal: It does not just come from wealth. It comes from giving back. It comes from. Being a well-rounded person. ~Um, ~that’s why I want to leave them with, and that’s how I want them to remember me is, Hey, our mom was a mom. She was a good wife. ~You know, she, ~she was a good daughter. She raised [00:31:00] us really well. She took this hiatus from her career.

[00:31:02] Rehmat Kharal: She took a break to raise us. She went back and she, ~you know, ~saw what she wanted and she went for it. She didn’t let anything stop her. ~Um, ~So we shouldn’t let anything stop us either from our, ~you know, ~achieving our own successes.

[00:31:15] Lee Michael Murphy: Thank you so much. ~That, that was, ~that was a phenomenal answer. ~Uh, ~if people want to reach out to your and how can they contact.

[00:31:20] Rehmat Kharal: You can find me on LinkedIn. ~Um, ~Rehmat Kharal, I think is ~my, ~my tag on LinkedIn. You can find me on Instagram, rehmat.kharal1 on Instagram. ~Um, ~you can always shoot me in the email.

[00:31:32] Rehmat Kharal: ~Um, ~ you can reach out to me at REM R E M Kharal K H a R a L at Gmail. Reach out to me. ~Um, ~

[00:31:38] Lee Michael Murphy: Rem, thank you so much for coming on today. You’ve been amazing. You’ve been listening to the free retiree show so long for now.